tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.comments2020-12-24T20:27:37.962-08:00Bridges to YesteryearNorahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-75438864377201791822020-12-24T20:27:37.962-08:002020-12-24T20:27:37.962-08:00Well Nora, I am finally convinced that Edward Bish...Well Nora, I am finally convinced that Edward Bishop, the Sawyer and Edward Bishop, Sr. were indeed two different people living in Salem town and Beverly respectively. This blog post was the final nail: https://www.witchesmassbay.com/2018/07/15/where-did-accused-witch-bridget-bishop-live/ along with an excellent geneological biography of Edward Sr. here: Edward Bishop (ca. 1618–1697) of Salem and Beverly, Massachusetts, The New England Historical and Genealogical Register 173 (Winter 2019):52–65, Nancy R. StevensBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00589337069075137485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-33942104883550330022019-09-30T14:05:58.281-07:002019-09-30T14:05:58.281-07:00I am a grandson of Edward Bishop, the sawyer's...I am a grandson of Edward Bishop, the sawyer's, last wife, Elizabeth Cash. If you think he is a mystery, you should try and figure her out. She climbed out of a hole in 1666, and back into one in 1698. She isn't buried anywhere, there is no record of her death, or his for that matter. She just disappears. In 1698 I believe he dropped off of the tax roles because he moved into her house in Salem if that helps your research. That house was owned until around 1718 when it was sold by her son or grandson William Cash. The records make it hard to tell. bkscpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01369681215450751132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-60562211634314998382018-01-26T09:12:50.389-08:002018-01-26T09:12:50.389-08:00Bill, I apologize. I see in a comment above that ...Bill, I apologize. I see in a comment above that you sent me your email address. I'll use that one and send you the articles. I'm not very savvy at combining multiple jpeg or pdf files, so will send them in groups of 3 or 4 pages in a few separate emails. Let me know when you get them, ok?Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-87126930622031202582018-01-26T09:06:04.903-08:002018-01-26T09:06:04.903-08:00Bill, I keep trying to reply to your comment, but ...Bill, I keep trying to reply to your comment, but haven't been able to get itbto take. Here's my third try. I have a copy of the Dr. Greene articles and can email them to you if you will give me your email address. Or email me at nbish208@aol.com.<br /><br />Thanks.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-20352323932090876072018-01-15T20:30:21.242-08:002018-01-15T20:30:21.242-08:00Hello again Nora. After additional research, I now...Hello again Nora. After additional research, I now believe my family descended from Edw I, Edw II, Samuel (not Edw III, as I previously thought. This was based on close scrutiny of probate records.<br /><br />I am still interested in th Edw. I / Bridget controversy, but I have been unable to access Dr. Greene's articles.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00589337069075137485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-49342928406519818712017-12-21T20:39:33.477-08:002017-12-21T20:39:33.477-08:00I'm Angela Colborn superior WisconsinI'm Angela Colborn superior WisconsinAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757987157159653443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-55477890236589977832017-12-21T20:38:47.809-08:002017-12-21T20:38:47.809-08:00I'm Edward Bishop and Hannah Moore and Edward ...I'm Edward Bishop and Hannah Moore and Edward Colbourne and Hannah Rolfe and I'm direct legitimate granddaughter through Robert Colbourne and Mary Bishop still legitimate born in the marriage of Mary Bishop and Robert Colbourne and nobody wants to figure it out because we been ripped off so long generations of family members have not been able to afford to see our cemetery,Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757987157159653443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-48219735025871036522016-09-28T17:01:02.320-07:002016-09-28T17:01:02.320-07:00bishskier@comcast.netbishskier@comcast.netBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01518287548869259088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-79590012619038554132016-08-28T12:59:19.033-07:002016-08-28T12:59:19.033-07:00Bill, I'm interested in your line of descent a...Bill, I'm interested in your line of descent after Edward III. Would you share that with me? Also, did you want me to send copies of these sources I've found via email attachments or by mail? Either way, can you let me have your address or email address?Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-20356074080189861752016-08-16T19:12:15.561-07:002016-08-16T19:12:15.561-07:00Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you ab...Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you about the spelling issues. I think it was a matter of inconsistency.<br /><br />I would greatly appreciate any source documents you could send me. -RegardsBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01518287548869259088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-29657366117664356282016-08-09T13:04:27.628-07:002016-08-09T13:04:27.628-07:00Bill, I have another comment, regarding the altern...Bill, I have another comment, regarding the alternate spellings found for the name Bishop, i.e., "Byshop" and "Beshop". I'm sure you've found in your research that spelling was pretty arbitrary in these times, often finding a person's name being spelled two or three different ways within the same record. I've found Bridget's married name "Oliver" spelled "Ollyver" and "Olyver", also in various court or witch trial documents. I've spoken at a few seminars, and this is one of the main points I harp on to other researchers, that we're going to find our families' names spelled in a variety of ways, so I tell them that unlike in other scholarly endeavors, 'spelling doesn't count'.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-45742534723774271282016-08-09T12:56:15.818-07:002016-08-09T12:56:15.818-07:00Bill, thank you for your thoughtful and concise co...Bill, thank you for your thoughtful and concise comments on my post about the Edward Bishop dilemma in 1692. We need to keep that skepticism, friendly or not-so-friendly, in full force as we reach conclusions about our family history. My descent is from Edward, Sr (1), Edward, Jr (2) and then David Bishop (3). My maiden name was Bishop; and I too wanted to resolve the confusion or controversy we find anywhere we read about these Salem/Salem Village/Beverly Bishop's at the time of the Salem witch trials.<br /><br />Have you had a chance to read the paper written by Dr. David L. Greene, one of the sources I listed for this post? It's a 10-page article and can be found on line if you have access to the site Americanancestors.org. As above noted, it's entitled "Salem Witches I: Bridget Bishop" and is in the journal "The American Genealogist" (TAG), Volume 57, no. 3, July, 1981, pages 129-138.<br /><br />I think Dr Greene presents a convincing amount of evidence and reasoning for his conclusion that our ancestor Edward Bishop was NOT the Edward Bishop who married Bridget Bishop. He wrote an additional short piece, "Bridget Bishop Correction", found in the same journal (TAG), Volume 58, page 163.<br /><br />In the short piece, Dr Greene states that because of his ill health at the time the larger article was being finished, edited and published, he omitted a significant part of the evidence he relied on: that "the names of 'Edward beshop sen' and 'hana beshop' appear together on a 1692 petition in behalf of the accused witch Rebecca Nourse (Salem Witch Papers, 2:592)". You also mentioned this fact. I'm only quoting the once sentence from this half-page article; it's well worth finding and reading the article in its entirety as well as the 10-page piece found in the 1981 TAG journal.<br /><br />In the larger article, Dr Greene covers most of the points you mentioned in your post and more, including the map created by W.E. Upham - with his erroneous placement of Bridget Bishop's supposed changed residence in close proximity to the Bishop's of Salem Village and Beverly.<br /><br />As to what is found in the testimony of John Bly and his son in 1692 about the work they did at "the old house she (Bridget) formerly lived in, I've found elsewhere that Bridget DID move to a different house, but it was a house built for her on the same property as the old house, on part of Thomas Oliver's estate and still in the Town of Salem, rather than in the Village.<br /><br />Your skepticism is understandable; and because of your wish to see this controversy resolved, I'd be glad to mail you copies of source documents that I relied upon in resolving it to my OWN satisfaction, including copies of deeds, court records, the articles by Dr Greene, etc. Also, I have copies of the Last Will and Testament of Edward Bishop (2) and property disbursements to the heirs of Edward and Sarah (Wildes) Bishop from the Bristol County, Massachusetts probate records. I copied these from microfilmed copies rented from the LDS in Salt Lake City.<br /><br />Please let me know if you'd like me to mail these items to you; I really do appreciate your thoughtful arguments, pro and con, and all of your input on my blog. It's very nice to hear from another direct descendant of my Bishop ancestors.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-84996503635101801982016-08-07T14:54:54.083-07:002016-08-07T14:54:54.083-07:00One source forwarded the proposition that after Ed...One source forwarded the proposition that after Edw. Bishop and Bridget married, she moved to his place in Beverly and rented out her place in Salem Town. This could account for the confusion between Bridget and Sarah Bishop that existed, especially if one believes the map produced by W. E. Upham showing Edward, Sr.’s house next to the house of Edward, Jr. and Sarah on the same property. Evidence in support is the testimony of John Bly and his son in 1692 that they did some work at the “old house she (Bridget) formerly lived in.” Bly testified that he performed this work about 7 years prior, which would have been about 1685. Some sources put Bridget’s marriage to Edward between 1685 and 1687 and it could be possible she moved to Beverly at that time. Also, your records indicate that Bly was a neighbor in Salem Town. The testimony of Bly opens the door that Bridget moved sometime after 1685.<br /><br />It is also curious that Bridget’s preliminary hearing was in Salem Village, not Salem Town. Bridget testified that she had never been “in this place before,” but she could be referring specifically to the village hall building, not Salem Village. Also of note is that an Edward Bishop was recorded as a member of the Salem Town church and an Edward Bishop was a founding member of the Beverly church. Thus, Bridget would have been a member of the church in Salem Town and possibly later Beverly, but not Salem Village, which could help account for her unfamiliarity with the location.<br /><br />Conversely, it is possible that Edward, Sr. could have moved to Bridget’s property in Salem Town, while still retaining his property in Beverly. Finally, the possibility exists that Edward and Bridget were still married, but living separately at the time.<br /><br />It has also been said that Bridget lived on Conant Street. Unfortunately, this doesn’t help much with the riddle, as the location of her house in Salem town is about where Conant Street is today, however, the road in Beverly that Edward, Sr. and Jr. lived on is also known as Conant Street.<br />While researching this, I found a deed recorded in Essex Co., dated March 17, 1706, which proves that the Edward who moved to Rehoboth was the father of the person we know as Edward, III. The deed states that Edward and his brother Samuel received land from their “honorable father Mr. Edward Bishop of Rehoboth.” This deed was signed by Edward, Samuel and their wives, Susanna and Mary. I also noted from my deed search that Edward, III at some point moved from Beverly to Salem Township. I would like to pin down exactly where he lived in town, but haven’t gotten that far.<br /><br />I still have yet to decide for myself whether Edward, Sr. and Edward the sawyer were the same person. It is entirely possible that there were more than four Edward Bishops in the area at the time, supported by the fact that in 1695 an Edward Byshop signed a petition against Salem Village Pastor Samuel Parris (instrumental in the Salem Witch trials) and another Edward Byshop signed a separate petition in support of Parris. Note that the spelling of the last names are different than the spelling used in other documents of the time. The documents are available online.<br /><br />I am a direct descendant of Edward Bishop, Sr., Jr. and III, so I would love to see this definitively resolved, but remain skeptical – Bill BishopBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01518287548869259088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-4495535817530157302016-08-07T14:54:01.409-07:002016-08-07T14:54:01.409-07:00I wanted to put in a little friendly skepticism. I...I wanted to put in a little friendly skepticism. I believe the evidence against Edward Bishop, Sr. and Edward Bishop, the sawyer may not be as strong as some believe. I think the strongest evidence is the comparison of their marks. Also, other sources also state Edward, Sr. could not be the husband of Bridget, because he and his first spouse Hannah signed a petition in support of Rebecca Nurse in 1692. It is also worth noting that someone signed both Edward and Hannah’s names to the petition. The handwriting for both signatures is virtually identical, but I also noted that Edward did not use his initials as a mark on the petition. To me these two facts provide the best support of the argument that Edward, Sr. was not the husband of Bridget.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I believe that the documents which purport to show the signatures and marks of the various Edwards are merely handwritten copies made by the County Recorder. Note that some of the deeds were recorded several years after their enactment. I think that the process in those days was to take an original document to the recorder and he would copy it verbatim by hand, including signatures into the county record books. It is possible, however that some of the signatures and marks in the books are original.<br /><br />Also, Edward, Sr. may well have been a husbandman, but that does not eliminate the possibility that he switched occupations to sawyer.<br /><br />Regarding the tax rolls, if they were property tax rolls, the possibility still exists that Bishop owned more than one property. The neighbors of the properties would be the same on the rolls regardless of whether Edw. Bishop actually lived there.<br /><br />Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01518287548869259088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-62075108247785290352016-06-27T08:47:02.656-07:002016-06-27T08:47:02.656-07:00I know how frustrating and challenging it is to fo...I know how frustrating and challenging it is to follow the trail of ancestors who either change their name spelling or have it altered by various record keepers. I've seen so MANY instances of name variations - even different spellings within the same document! I'm sure you know that even Bishop is found spelled several different ways, especially in Colonial times.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-74813247326859737292016-06-27T08:37:37.718-07:002016-06-27T08:37:37.718-07:00Was this the Mary Bishop born to Edward and Hannah...Was this the Mary Bishop born to Edward and Hannah in 1851. Sounds like this could be a subject to write about in a future post on my blog. Thanks for your comments, Sardonic Prussian.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-67086547504179007262016-06-27T08:26:18.092-07:002016-06-27T08:26:18.092-07:00And we the Colbourne of Mary Bishop Colborn Colbur...And we the Colbourne of Mary Bishop Colborn Colburns marriage are a very old family of America and getting very tired of being denied our heritage! I am legitimate granddaughter and offspring of the marriage every generation since Mary Bishop took my grandfather's Robert Colburns hand!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757987157159653443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-86323422386058445002016-06-27T08:23:45.949-07:002016-06-27T08:23:45.949-07:00I insist they get this straight! I am a direct leg...I insist they get this straight! I am a direct legitimate granddaughter of Edward Bishop of the Salem witch trials! I am Mary Bishop Colborns! And because her grandson Samuel Colborn change the spelling! We born through legitimate marriage every generation! Are denied our daddy's!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757987157159653443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-66285738851284335492016-01-13T20:58:15.621-08:002016-01-13T20:58:15.621-08:00Thanks for your comment. You're right, a lot ...Thanks for your comment. You're right, a lot of hard work but so very rewarding when so many great, original documents are available on line. After over 26 years of research, I had the breakthrough that took me back to Edward. Very fun to research.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-32184680995077808572016-01-09T10:06:22.821-08:002016-01-09T10:06:22.821-08:00Great information alot of hard work. I believe th...Great information alot of hard work. I believe through my research to GGG-GF was peter son of Asa, son of Ebenezer, son of EDward.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13643289536361445546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-8747949811423577492015-05-15T15:37:34.478-07:002015-05-15T15:37:34.478-07:00Thank you so much for your comment. I sent you a ...Thank you so much for your comment. I sent you a reply via email (since that's how I learned that you'd commented). Yes, I have also noticed that there was a William Bishop in Dutchess County in 1790 (in Amenia) and also in 1800 (in North East Township). And that's where William's brother Peter ended up, as well as their father Ebenezer. Then there was another brother, Asa Bishop, who lived in Ulster County. There's a good amount of info on him and his descendants.<br /><br />But William and Catherine are mysteries so far!Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136574309932702164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-71082599578013977532015-05-12T20:32:06.752-07:002015-05-12T20:32:06.752-07:00Hi,
I am also looking for information about Willi...Hi,<br /><br />I am also looking for information about William and Catherine. I come through the Adelia Ann Bishop line. <br /><br />There is a William Bishop listed in the 1790 Amenia, Dutchess, New York Census. I wonder if this could be our William? There is no wife's name listed. http://interactive.ancestry.com/5058/4440870_00205?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return<br /><br />I am excited about the information you have about John Fitch Bishop. It looks like you have done some incredible research. Thank you!<br /><br />M JonesMama and Papa Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17361783056873215363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-321713510221888261.post-53379266157702171302015-05-12T20:29:54.846-07:002015-05-12T20:29:54.846-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mama and Papa Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17361783056873215363noreply@blogger.com